Sent: Friday, May 8, 2010
To: 'NoReply'
Subject: Re: There will be a debate on Sept 13
Hi: Yes lets get this straight sir. I got the name wrong on the guest worker program but my grandma and others still have the difficulties that you are espousing and no my grandma is not wealthy and worrying about a capital gains tax. She like other family family farmers worry about both democratic and republican policies that help large farms by encouraging massive subsidies to larger farmers that your bud Bush put into place. Oh I forgot Bush is a liberal to most of the people in your organization. I also have a nice you tube video for you to watch so that you can see the wonderful hypocratic minutemen in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_k_szqFAtY&feature=fvw
Yes I would like to continue this so that you can come to the conclusion that a middle ground approach is the only way to solve this problem. We do need secure borders but we also need to give persons such as the woman that I worked with in the restaurant a way of getting out of the underground economy so that they can pay taxes and fully participat in this country. On an unrelated issue. How do yuo feel about the possible admission of Puerto Rico into this country as a state? Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: noreply@therockymountainfoundation.org
To: "Stephen Block"
Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2010 1:39:06 AM
Subject: Re: There will be a debate on Sept 13
Let me get this straight. First you ask about a debate, which I clearly said have been held and will be held in the future. Tom is not worried about presenting the facts. Then you complain about Sheriff Joe Arpio, someone who is elected and re-elected in Arizona, ask about the ICE raid on a Pottsville, Iowa meat packing plant where Illegally employed Israeli employees were pretending to process Kosher foods (I am Jewish and was disgusted by the entire situation, so yes, I am very well aware of it). I clearly cited substantial costs of Illegal immigration which you have chosen to ignore (here is just one of many http://www.gao.gov/archive/1996/he96149t.pdf) Then you claim the former mayor said they went back to Mexico and Guatemala which indicates you neither read an account, or chose to read something completely unrelated to the ICE raid in Pottsville, Iowa. When you tossed out a story about your grandma and her vineyard in Illinois and the labor from immigrants with "hb2" visas, I know know you are making up things since there is no such visa. The nonagricultural visa is called the H2B and the agricultural visa is an H2A. Furthermore, there is no limit on the H2A quantity that can be admitted to the US. Tom worked to return that program to the original intent, a streamlined approach to temporary workers that was completely misrepresented by this web post (http://www.zazona.com/NewsArchive/2003-01-06%20Tancredo's%20Million%20Worker%20Visa%20Bill.htm). As to the BS about $8 heads of lettuce, the marginal cost of increased pay to ag workers is diffused far more than the numbers you have clearly made up. I will make this simple so I don't need to use a calculator and you can verify it with real numbers if you like. If a picker can gather 100 heads of lettice an hour and is paid $5 an hour the cost is roughly 5 cents a head. If that picker is paid twice as much at $10 an hour for the same labor (a job an American would not take I suppose), the diffused cost would rise to 10 cents a head. If the cost of transportation and brokerage fees as well as cleaning and inspections were to remain the same or increase marginally, it would still increase the price only to the extent of the diffused labor cost. Lettuce would NEVER increase to $8, unless the current price is about $6.50 to $7 a head (that is the price in Japan when it is out of season, it drops to about 30 cents at harvest time). On the other hand, if Obama and his merry Socialists in Washington DC were to levy an additional tax of 15% on capital gains and a farmer spends 10 cents for seeds to create 1.10$ of goods to feed his family, he has a capital gain of $1. The capital gains tax (currently 15%) would be a total of 30%, or about 30 cents less than what he would have had if there were no capital gains tax at all. The tax on the "wealthy" farmer, who needs to feed his family and buy more seeds and fuel a tractor and go on vacation once every few years, must increase his prices by that same 15% to pay for the new taxes from Mr. Obama. What happens to the taxes? They go to pay for health care and education for illegal immigrants that choose to leave their socialist worker's paradise of Mexico, Guatemala or even Israel (yes, they have a socialist parliment, it is no secret), break our laws, and work for slightly lower wages than legal residents and citizens. It is not that complicated, you have to think about it and stop with the rhetoric. If you wish to continue to engage in anecdotal citations with me, I am fine doing that; however if don't have the common decency to be truthful, please feel free to discontinue this discussion. -----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Block [mailto:sblock001@wowway.com]
Sent: Friday, May 7, 2010 10:03 PM
To: 'NoReply'
Subject: Re: There will be a debate on Sept 13
p { margin: 0; } I was just browsing the web and the former mayor was discussing how it emptied the town of it''s tax base both illegal and legal. The press said that legal residents left for Mexico and Guatemala emptying stores and rental properties. Their are several studies of how ice raids destroy communities. I live in Ohio and if the sherrif in Butler county has his way the few immigrants who are here will become a typical Ohio statistic of more people who have left the state. My grandma lives in Illinois and has grape vinyard and we and other farmers have used the labor from immigrants when we couldn't find native born. We try to use high school kids and then people who are mentally challenged but then must resort to hiring immigrants due to a lack of labor. This is the reality in most farming towns. I am for hb2 visas since we need ag workers. Mr Tancredo opposed this ital program for some strange reason. I guess he doesn't mind $8.00 lettuce which will be the price if the farmers hire Americans with benefits which are needed since we have employer based medical coverage. Did you read the other email with the story in it? Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "NoReply"
To: "Stephen Block"
Sent: Friday, May 7, 2010 9:52:02 PM
Subject: RE: There will be a debate on Sept 13
What state and what documentation do you have on the negative impact?
My frend, who has family in the area, tells me the local economy is better and formerly unemployed, legal residents are working there.
I have CBO reports from the 1990s indicating the cost of health services and education at 8 billion a year.
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Block
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2010 5:37 PM
To: NoReply
Subject: Re: There will be a debate on Sept 13
Hi Dan:
I just resent it. Let me know when you receive it. Tom might want to come to this state since we have an Arpaio like clone trying to put on the ballot an initiative to have an Arizona like law to deal with the less then five percent of all of the people he jails. Such hystery generated from a scary population indeed. Seriously do you understand the economic devestation that occured in Potsville iowa after the ICE raid.
Stephen
[The entire original message is not included]
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